I definitely cannot help you with setups, I'm not a setup guru, I'm just the one who implements the physics so others can work out the best setups. There are some other threads about preload, you'll find them on a search. I think everyone is just at the experimental stage with them. I'll never be the setup guy, I spend too much time programming and too little time racing, thinking about such fine details of vehicle dynamics and developing setups.

WARNING : THIS IS A TEST

Hello racers.

Here is a new test patch W10. It can play the hotlaps made by the old versions, even though there is one physics change - clutch preload. It's also incompatible for various other reasons - it can allow up to 28 cars in a race, in S1 or S2 mode, there is a global class balancing system which is currently applied to the TBO and GTR classes, and there are various other multiplayer improvements.

W10 fixes all the known bugs in the W9 version - please read the list of changes below.

NOTE : Many of the fixes are in the HOST - so you should connect to W10 hosts and avoid W9 if possible!

Changes in TEST PATCH W10 :


IMPROVEMENTS :

Immediate join at start of qualifying now starts from pit box
Connection bars are not drawn if they would obscure tyre info
Single player now allows up to 20 ai cars (powerful pc needed)
Small map cars more than one lap ahead are a different colour
Autocross : 28 results now stored - scroll with PgUp / PgDn
Added handicap mass and restriction to hotlap file header
Demo races limited to 12 cars (15 guests still allowed)
Better messages showing the reason for disconnection
Maximum added mass limited to around 20% of car mass
Admin can see kick and ban buttons even if /vote=no

FIXES :

Incorrect false start penalties while stationary at start
Displayed mass in garage flickered while moving handicap slider
False start penalty was given for an early start in qualifying
Corrected width of split time difference (in live position list)
Wrong "A race is starting" if track changed but no race started
Joining a waiting start grid sometimes produced a false start
Could quickly pit and return to grid to remove a false start
Skins used in race were not stored correctly in MP replays
Admins could not kick or ban using the list of connections
Could be given a pit penalty on a track with no pit lane
MRT would fly about if voluntary added mass was too high

Changes in TEST PATCH W9 :

Car is no longer held at start line - false starts possible
Start lights time between red and green is changed each race
Implemented the canreset option while leaving hotlaps valid
Added preload setting to clutch pack differentials
Increased number of cars in race from 20 to 28
Increased number of connections from 24 to 48
Single player and demo races now up to 16 cars
Start and pit fuel loads range from 1% to 100%
New voluntary handicap system in pits (part of setup)
Remote car's handicap shown in F11 menu, tyres in F12 menu
Global handicaps for class balancing (set by master server)
Removed the need to pass a split after receiving admin penalty
Start grid remains when track or config changes (if possible)
More commands now work on AI drivers : /spec /pitlane /p_xxx
More commands work even if player joining e.g. /spec /laps
Grid reordering is now done on end race as well as restart
New /i command to send a message to a race control program
Added short track name to SPR, MPR and RAF file formats
More race tracking info added to InSim (see InSim.txt)
Admins can now see other admins in list of connections
Admins can now edit and /axsave layouts while online
Admin ban dialog now asks for a number of days to ban
Added text on screen showing the reason for a penalty
Race penalty can now be removed with /p_clear command
Send all players to their pits with /pit_all command
Autocross results table only shows best 12 results
Timeout for dead connection reduced to 12 seconds
Kick and ban votes are held open a little longer
Removed the option not to use HVS if available
SHIFT + S enters garage from game setup screen
SHIFT + O enters options from SP replay
Display option : Virtual steering gauge
Display option : Rotate small map

FIX : F12 now shows "Pit stop required : OK" correctly
FIX : Find user in S2 mode looking for racer on S1 host
FIX : Message "NETWORK FATAL : NOTSOCK" when joining a host
FIX : Autocross layout number of laps sometimes did not load

DOWNLOAD :

PATCH (Version W must already be installed) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_TEST_W10.exe

ZIP VERSION (If you prefer a zip file) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_TEST_W10.zip

DEDICATED HOST (for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_W10.zip

Quote from a n d 1 :

So when i start a Qualification i start in the Pits, that is actually fine but I have a message (False Start - sent to Spec).

I couldn't reproduce that locally but I could reproduce "False start - drive through penalty" in qualifying mode.

Quote from Ondrejko :

Single player and demo races now up to 16 cars

does it mean 16 cars in race + 1 spectator?
should i set 17 connections in setup.cfg?

I am going to change this soon, to 16 connections, but only 12 actually racing in the demo.

Quote from SpaceMarineITA :

A simple question :
Atm with 20 players limit + 4 spectator there is a command that allow you to set the server for 23 players and 1 spectator. (i have played some times ago into some 23 slots servers)

There will be the same command with the next patch? (allowing to set some servers with 47 players? )

No, that is not possible.

Quote from danowat :

I understand all that, but 20+ spec slots?.......

Driver changes in endurance races, etc. Absolutely vital. And it doesn't harm anyone if the server is up to it. Anyone hosting should use the bandwidth calculator in the client version of LFS to check the upload requirements and do not overload.

Quote from sinbad :

I've changed my mind about the "handicaps". If they're just changes to the car, then the cars should always be the same everywhere, single or multi. If they're truly handicaps, though, then why not have them work properly everywhere if it's possible to do so, which it is.

I can't change them in single player because you are not connected to the internet. And this would destroy the hotlap tables. The handicaps (or other changes like narrower tyres on the fxo) will become permanent in the next physics update.

Quote from Shotglass :

There´s a problem with the race setup screen in multiplayer. If I´m not mistaken (almost) all drivers on the server have to click ok the start the race which takes ages with 48 clients 20 of which are speccing and maybe AFK.

Only drivers have to click ready, not spectators, if I am wrong please test and tell me.

Quote from JasonJ :

There just seems to be a little false-start glitch occasionally, no biggie - I'm sure scawen is working hard on it. Just because you have not experienced it yet, does not mean it does not happen. Thanks everyone.

I guess some position packets are flying over from the previous race - that could cause the server to make you spectate (it thinks you are 4 metres away already before green light). And about the false start penalties, I can only guess at the moment it things the revving car twitch is actual motion. Pure guesses, I had a day off yesterday for the first time in while.

To the other person who was pressing me for an answer - obviously I cannot give answers without investigating. Just give me time. It's a test patch for finding issues, it's not the official version of LFS, and quite clearly I won't leave it with that glitch, and when I know the answer, of course I would tell you or release the fix.

WARNING : THIS IS A TEST

Hello racers.

Here is a new test patch W9. It can play the hotlaps made by the old version, even though there is one physics change - clutch preload. It's also incompatible for various other reasons - it can allow up to 28 cars in a race, in S1 or S2 mode, there is a global class balancing system which is currently applied to the TBO and GTR classes, and there are various other multiplayer improvements.

There are a LOT of changes, so there will probably be some problems - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!

You cannot connect to old W versions! The host must be W9 or later!

Changes in TEST PATCH W9 :

Car is no longer held at start line - false starts possible
Start lights time between red and green is changed each race
Implemented the canreset option while leaving hotlaps valid
Added preload setting to clutch pack differentials
Increased number of cars in race from 20 to 28
Increased number of connections from 24 to 48
Single player and demo races now up to 16 cars
Start and pit fuel loads range from 1% to 100%
New voluntary handicap system in pits (part of setup)
Remote car's handicap shown in F11 menu, tyres in F12 menu
Global handicaps for class balancing (set by master server)
Removed the need to pass a split after receiving admin penalty
Start grid remains when track or config changes (if possible)
More commands now work on AI drivers : /spec /pitlane /p_xxx
More commands work even if player joining e.g. /spec /laps
Grid reordering is now done on end race as well as restart
New /i command to send a message to a race control program
Added short track name to SPR, MPR and RAF file formats
More race tracking info added to InSim (see InSim.txt)
Admins can now see other admins in list of connections
Admins can now edit and /axsave layouts while online
Admin ban dialog now asks for a number of days to ban
Added text on screen showing the reason for a penalty
Race penalty can now be removed with /p_clear command
Send all players to their pits with /pit_all command
Autocross results table only shows best 12 results
Timeout for dead connection reduced to 12 seconds
Kick and ban votes are held open a little longer
Removed the option not to use HVS if available
SHIFT + S enters garage from game setup screen
SHIFT + O enters options from SP replay
Display option : Virtual steering gauge
Display option : Rotate small map

FIX : F12 now shows "Pit stop required : OK" correctly
FIX : Find user in S2 mode looking for racer on S1 host
FIX : Message "NETWORK FATAL : NOTSOCK" when joining a host
FIX : Autocross layout number of laps sometimes did not load

DOWNLOAD :

PATCH (Version W must already be installed) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_MP_TEST_W9.exe

ZIP VERSION (If you prefer a zip file) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_MP_TEST_W9.zip

DEDICATED HOST (for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_W9.zip

Hello Racers!

Introducing... a new, fully compatible Patch W for S2!
It's fully compatible which means it connects with old U30 and V versions, and can play the same replays.
The multiplayer protocol and physics have not changed.

The most important changes are :

1) The new car sounds, created by DaveWS who worked very well within the limits of the LFS sound system to create much nicer and more immersive car sounds than the ones we provided with version V. Thanks again for that, Dave!

2) Various graphical updates, including improvements to the level of detail system, improved 2D displays and mirrors, some useful changes to the car triangles on the small map, and some improvements to the efficiency of 2D and 3D drawing.

All the changes are listed below.

And a few words about our plans : The idea now is that everyone can use this new version with its better sounds and smoother graphics, while we get on with the multiplayer-incompatible patch which we hope to finish in just a few weeks (depending on what comes up in that time). That patch (probably known as Patch X) will allow more racers online (probably 24) and more spectators, and various other planned updates for it as well (but no physics changes). Physics updates will come some time after that, probably in version Y and will include updated car cockpits (most notably the GTR interiors) and a graphically improved version of South City. We can't give any more detailed time estimates for those patches because we don't know what will come up while we are working on them.

Changes from V to W :

Sound :

Included new default car sounds created by DaveWS
Engine sounds automatically switch to new defaults
No need to type edit_eng before using sound editor
Distortion is constant regardless of volume setting
New PACK button in sound editor to load a sound pack
TV camera and SHIFT+U avoid skid / wind volume boost
SKid and wind volumes are 33% louder for all settings

2D Display :

Improved small map car pointers
Improved needles and markers on clocks
Slightly more efficient 2d graphics drawing
Driver names appeared too late when using wide FOV
User LOD defaults to 0.8 (higher than old versions)
Reduced width of lag meter (see more with ctrl+shift)
Cars one lap behind are now shown in grey on small map
FIX : Wide screen autocross object selection buttons
FIX : Invisible warning when wrong way reversing

Graphics :

Higher resolution image in mirrors
Higher level of detail available in main view
LOD is no longer reduced with fov over 90 degrees
Removed unecessary LOD checks on most scenery
Removed option "Wider screen increases LOD"
Removed option "All scenery at maximum LOD"

Interface :

Selected setup is displayed in F12 menu
Another small reduction in pit-out glitch
ESC now closes live suspension view and sound editor
HOME key now works correctly in single player replays
ESC in game setup screen now exits to entry screen
SHIFT+O in main entry screen now goes to options
CTRL+S saves a screen shot to the shots folder
Setups can be sorted by name as well as date
Any resolution as wide as 3:1 is considered 3 screen
FIX : Default sound selected when deleting a colour
FIX : Mouse cursor is now visible on window border
FIX : Small renaming bug when saving replays

Multiplayer :

Some improvements to the ? info system in List of Games
LFS S1 / S2 hosts can now store up to 400 banned users
Admins can now use in-game : /laps /qual /hours /wind
New InSim packets (pit - penalty - take over - flags)
Join specific game - colours are removed from name
New option /adminslots=X reserves slots for admins
FIX : MsgOutPack (MSO) now shows long user messages
FIX : Wrong delay "setup changes" after tyre change

Views :

View options now visible before you go on track
Separate FOV stored for each car's custom view
Separate steer look option for each custom view
Improved options for follow view (chase cam)
View screen rearranged to make more sense

Misc :

New language included : Slovenian / Slovenski
Game setup screen stats : join - pit - spectate
Unlocks now increased every Friday instead of monthly
Master port is now selectable in cfg.txt (29339 or 8080)
Set log file name /log=name.xxx or /log to stop logging
FIX : Unlocking issue with AMD Athlon 64
FIX : Unlocking issue with Cedega

Installation :

You don't need a download link, because you can get Version V using the autoupdater built into LFS.
Just go into LFS and click on "List of Games" and you will be given the option to download the update from various mirrors.

EDIT : but if you have any issues with the autoupdater, you can install the patch manually from this link :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_PATCH_V_TO_W.exe

Last edited by Scawen, Sun, 1 Apr 2007 15:36.

Hello Test Patch Forum Readers!

The changes from V to V9 are good enough, important enough and well tested enough that we want to put them in our full version, so we've decided to put up a compatible patch W and full version W.

The idea is that everyone can use this new version which has better sounds and smoother graphics than version V, while we get on with the multiplayer-incompatible patch which we hope to finish in just a few weeks. That patch will allow more racers online (probably 24) and more spectators, and various other planned updates for it as well (though no physics changes in that first one).

Before releasing today's patch W in full public view, and while we are getting the auto updater and the full version ready, it seems like a good idea to let you have it here first and that will be one final test before it goes live.

Changes from V to W :

Sound :

Included new default car sounds created by DaveWS
Engine sounds automatically switch to new defaults
No need to type edit_eng before using sound editor
Distortion is constant regardless of volume setting
New PACK button in sound editor to load a sound pack
TV camera and SHIFT+U avoid skid / wind volume boost
SKid and wind volumes are 33% louder for all settings

2D Display :

Improved small map car pointers
Improved needles and markers on clocks
Slightly more efficient 2d graphics drawing
Driver names appeared too late when using wide FOV
User LOD defaults to 0.8 (higher than old versions)
Reduced width of lag meter (see more with ctrl+shift)
Cars one lap behind are now shown in grey on small map
FIX : Wide screen autocross object selection buttons
FIX : Invisible warning when wrong way reversing

Graphics :

Higher resolution image in mirrors
Higher level of detail available in main view
LOD is no longer reduced with fov over 90 degrees
Removed unecessary LOD checks on most scenery
Removed option "Wider screen increases LOD"
Removed option "All scenery at maximum LOD"

Interface :

Selected setup is displayed in F12 menu
Another small reduction in pit-out glitch
ESC now closes live suspension view and sound editor
HOME key now works correctly in single player replays
ESC in game setup screen now exits to entry screen
SHIFT+O in main entry screen now goes to options
CTRL+S saves a screen shot to the shots folder
Setups can be sorted by name as well as date
Any resolution as wide as 3:1 is considered 3 screen
FIX : Default sound selected when deleting a colour
FIX : Mouse cursor is now visible on window border
FIX : Small renaming bug when saving replays

Multiplayer :

Some improvements to the ? info system in List of Games
LFS S1 / S2 hosts can now store up to 400 banned users
Admins can now use in-game : /laps /qual /hours /wind
New InSim packets (pit - penalty - take over - flags)
Join specific game - colours are removed from name
New option /adminslots=X reserves slots for admins
FIX : MsgOutPack (MSO) now shows long user messages
FIX : Wrong delay "setup changes" after tyre change

Views :

View options now visible before you go on track
Separate FOV stored for each car's custom view
Separate steer look option for each custom view
Improved options for follow view (chase cam)
View screen rearranged to make more sense

Misc :

New language included : Slovenian / Slovenski
Game setup screen stats : join - pit - spectate
Unlocks now increased every Friday instead of monthly
Master port is now selectable in cfg.txt (29339 or 8080)
Set log file name /log=name.xxx or /log to stop logging
FIX : Unlocking issue with AMD Athlon 64
FIX : Unlocking issue with Cedega

INSTALLATION :

1) Move or save the patch into your main LFS folder
2) Double click the patch to extract it to that folder
3) When you see "Confirm File Replace" select "Yes to All"
4) Now you can start LFS in the normal way

DOWNLOAD :

TEST PATCH W (2 MB) :
[ You can get it using the autoupdater - just click on List of Games in LFS - but if you have any problems here's the link ]
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_PATCH_V_TO_W.exe

DEDICATED HOST W (1 MB - for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_W.zip

Last edited by Scawen, Sun, 1 Apr 2007 15:37.

Quote from GP4Flo :

So is it really realistic, that the GTI and FXO go faster (with less understeer) through a corner if you are on full throttle? I would expect the exact opposite, because of a) the weight transfer to the rear when accelerating and b) the wheels sliding more.

Edit: Yes, I was talking about locked diffs.

Thanks, I am interested and concerned about why the locked diffs work so well in LFS. I think the answer is in the levels of grip and forces applied when the tyres slip. I think the tyre physics allow too much difference in the speed of the left and right tyres, so you don't get some of the disadvantages of a locked diff. But I haven't studied it in detail yet. I have checked over the locked diff code a few times just to check and all it really does is keeps both sides locked together in rotation. But we know the longitudinal tyre forces need some improvements, for example the well known thing that in many cars the acceleration seems too good if you just wheelspin.

Really it would be better to discuss on another thread.

But the last thing I'll say on this thread, is there is no reason at all to assume that because locked diff performs well in LFS, that there is something wrong with the locked diffs. It's far more likely to be related to tyre physics, if locked diffs seem to perform slightly better in LFS than they do in real life. Even though in real life locked diffs are often used in cheap racing classes, as a simple and cheap improvement over open diffs, only a welder is required to lock the diff.

There isn't any reason to think it's anything to do with the locked diff code. Locked diff is a very simple simulation and there's nothing wrong with it.

But if we are going to talk about diffs, let's not discuss it on this thread, it's really the wrong place. I don't even want to talk about them anyway, I'm just pointing how it's wrong when people say the diffs must be fixed - because they aren't broken - they are doing what they were meant to do! I know there are good reasons to want preload in the clutch pack diffs, but that doesn't mean the current ones are broken either.

Quote from hackerx :

Was on BL1 with layout, pressed shift + U and LFS crashed, address: 0x000000000041dd13.

Thank you. Your crash address showed me axactly which line it was. The crash was an integer divide by zero and it's a very simple fix to avoid that. It was related to LOD so doesn't affect anything else.

Quote from JasonJ :

Crash on BL1r going to Shift-U - No layout (clear Day) Single Player

I was driving around and noticed the shadow behind the car flickering. So I stopped and took a closer look...

...I pressed Shift-U for a closer look. LFS closed instantly! BANG! No error messages. Shift U works fine when in the first picture. I can even drive over the clipping spot IN Shift-U mode with no problems. It's when I hit Shift-U right when the shadow is clipped LFS goes bye bye. These shadow clipping spots exist all the way around the track. Every 5 meters or so, depending on the incline of the track. (Flatter ground = more clipping spots) Sorry if I'm using the wrong terminology...

Thanks, this will be the same crash that hackerx reported. It's not reproducable 100% because you must happen be in just the right spot as you enter SHIFT+U mode.

The shadow clipping you see can come up if the track is aligned along the x or y axis and the sun is a bit low in the sky. LFS doesn't realise that the next track segment is in the shadow, because it's out of its physics range.

Hello Racers! Here is a new fully compatible Test Patch, V9. A new crash bug that was introduced in V6 needed to be fixed, along with another old crash bug also found by hackerx! Also there is one new long-requested feature - the cars which are more than one lap behind you are now drawn in grey on the small map, so you know if the car behind you is fighting for position (orange) or not (grey). V6 really seemed to cured the hanging and freezing for most people and resulted in smoother frame rates than ever.

The changes from V to V9 are all listed below in this post. Some of the changes (like the unlocking fixes which were in V2) are very important to some people. Many people will like some of the other improvements, even though there are no physics changes or any major multiplayer changes (which we do hope to release in the near future). In particular I think most people will be happy that we are now using DaveWS's sounds as the default sounds! Thank you Dave!

There are also various minor graphical improvements and several new InSim packets which will be helpful for people developing race management systems. Hosts will also be happy with the new option /adminslots which reserves connection slots for administrators.

LFS S2 has now diverged into two versions, a compatible version and a non-compatible version. As we continue to develop the incompatible version, I may copy some compatible changes into the compatible version so they get well tested and you get a few updates - and any important issues get fixed.

This thread is for feedback about the test patch. We need to know if you find any problems. Please do not make feature requests on this thread. Thank you!

Changes in TEST PATCH V7 / V8 / V9 :

Cars one lap behind are now shown in grey on small map
LFS S1 / S2 hosts can now store up to 400 banned users
Most languages now updated for the V2 - V5 text changes
FIX : List of games full filter now considers admin slots
FIX : New crash in V6 most often caused by SHIFT+U mode
FIX : Very rare old crash related to unusual view angle
FIX : Rare crash in garage when selecting a new car

Changes from V to V6 :

Sound :

Included new default car sounds created by DaveWS
Engine sounds automatically switch to new defaults
No need to type edit_eng before using sound editor
Distortion is constant regardless of volume setting
New PACK button in sound editor to load a sound pack
TV camera and SHIFT+U avoid skid / wind volume boost
SKid and wind volumes are 33% louder for all settings

2D Display :

Improved small map car pointers
Improved needles and markers on clocks
Slightly more efficient 2d graphics drawing
Driver names appeared too late when using wide FOV
User LOD defaults to 0.8 (higher than old versions)
Reduced width of lag meter (see more with ctrl+shift)
FIX : Wide screen autocross object selection buttons
FIX : Invisible warning when wrong way reversing

Graphics :

Higher resolution image in mirrors
Higher level of detail available in main view
LOD is no longer reduced with fov over 90 degrees
Removed unecessary LOD checks on most scenery
Removed option "Wider screen increases LOD"
Removed option "All scenery at maximum LOD"

Interface :

Selected setup is displayed in F12 menu
Another small reduction in pit-out glitch
ESC now closes live suspension view and sound editor
HOME key now works correctly in single player replays
ESC in game setup screen now exits to entry screen
SHIFT+O in main entry screen now goes to options
CTRL+S saves a screen shot to the shots folder
Setups can be sorted by name as well as date
Any resolution as wide as 3:1 is considered 3 screen
FIX : Next screen shot number was not saved on exit
FIX : Default sound selected when deleting a colour
FIX : Mouse cursor is now visible on window border
FIX : Small renaming bug when saving replays

Multiplayer :

Some improvements to the ? info system in List of Games
Admins can now use in-game : /laps /qual /hours /wind
New InSim packets (pit - penalty - take over - flags)
Join specific game - colours are removed from name
New option /adminslots=X reserves slots for admins
FIX : MsgOutPack (MSO) now shows long user messages
FIX : Wrong delay "setup changes" after tyre change

Views :

View options now visible before you go on track
Separate FOV stored for each car's custom view
Separate steer look option for each custom view
Improved options for follow view (chase cam)
View screen rearranged to make more sense

Misc :

New language : Slovenian / Slovenski
Game setup screen stats : join - pit - spectate
Unlocks now increased every Friday instead of monthly
Master port is now selectable in cfg.txt (29339 or 8080)
Set log file name /log=name.xxx or /log to stop logging
FIX : Unlocking issue with AMD Athlon 64
FIX : Unlocking issue with Cedega

INSTALLATION :

1) Move or save the patch into your main LFS folder
2) Double click the patch to extract it to that folder
3) When you see "Confirm File Replace" select "Yes to All"
4) Now you can start LFS in the normal way

DOWNLOAD :

TEST PATCH V9 (2 MB) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_V9_TEST.exe

DEDICATED HOST V9 (1 MB - for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_V9.zip

Last edited by Scawen, Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:08.

Hello Racers! Here is a new fully compatible Test Patch, V5. It fixes some issues that remained in V4. The V4 to V5 changes are listed below.

The changes from V to V5 are all listed below in this post. Some of the changes (like the unlocking fixes which were in V2) are very important to some people. Many people will like some of the other improvements, even though there are no physics changes or any major multiplayer changes (which we do hope to release in the near future). In particular I think most people will be happy that we are now using DaveWS's sounds as the default sounds! Thank you Dave!

There are also various minor graphical improvements and several new InSim packets which will be helpful for people developing race management systems. Hosts will also be happy with the new option /adminslots which reserves connection slots for administrators.

LFS S2 has now diverged into two versions, a compatible version and a non-compatible version. As we continue to develop the incompatible version, I may copy some compatible changes into the compatible version so they get well tested and you get a few updates - and any important issues get fixed.

This thread is for feedback about the test patch. We need to know if you find any problems. Please do not make feature requests on this thread. Thank you!

Changes in TEST PATCH V5 :

User LOD defaults to 0.6 (still higher than old versions)
Some improvements to the ? info system in List of Games
Unlocks now increased every Friday instead of monthly
Wind and skid volumes are 33% louder for all settings
InSim FIX : IS_PSF packet is now sent correctly

Changes from V to V4 :

Sound :

Included new default car sounds created by DaveWS
Engine sounds automatically switch to new defaults
No need to type edit_eng before using sound editor
Distortion is constant regardless of volume setting
New PACK button in sound editor to load a sound pack

2D Display :

Improved small map car pointers
Improved needles and markers on clocks
Slightly more efficient 2d graphics drawing
Driver names appeared too late when using wide FOV
Reduced width of lag meter (see more with ctrl+shift)
FIX : Wide screen autocross object selection buttons
FIX : Invisible warning when wrong way reversing

Graphics :

Higher resolution image in mirrors
Higher level of detail available in main view
Removed unecessary LOD checks on most scenery
Removed option "Wider screen increases LOD"
Removed option "All scenery at maximum LOD"

Interface :

Selected setup is displayed in F12 menu
Another small reduction in pit-out glitch
ESC now closes live suspension view and sound editor
HOME key now works correctly in single player replays
ESC in game setup screen now exits to entry screen
SHIFT+O in main entry screen now goes to options
CTRL+S saves a screen shot to the shots folder
Setups can be sorted by name as well as date
Any resolution as wide as 3:1 is considered 3 screen
FIX : Next screen shot number was not saved on exit
FIX : Default sound selected when deleting a colour
FIX : Mouse cursor is now visible on window border
FIX : Small renaming bug when saving replays

Multiplayer :

Join specific game - colours are removed from name
New option /adminslots=X reserves slots for admins
Admins can now use in-game : /laps /qual /hours /wind
New InSim packets (pit - penalty - take over - flags)
FIX : MsgOutPack (MSO) now shows long user messages
FIX : Wrong delay "setup changes" after tyre change

Views :

View options now visible before you go on track
Separate FOV stored for each car's custom view
Separate steer look option for each custom view
Improved options for follow view (chase cam)
View screen rearranged to make more sense

Misc :

New language : Slovenian / Slovenski
Various translation updates and improvements
Game setup screen stats : join - pit - spectate
Master port is now selectable in cfg.txt (29339 or 8080)
Set log file name /log=name.xxx or /log to stop logging
FIX : Unlocking issue with AMD Athlon 64
FIX : Unlocking issue with Cedega

INSTALLATION :

1) Move or save the patch into your main LFS folder
2) Double click the patch to extract it to that folder
3) When you see "Confirm File Replace" select "Yes to All"
3) Now you can start LFS in the normal way

DOWNLOAD :

TEST PATCH V5 (1.5 MB) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_V5_TEST.exe

DEDICATED HOST V5 (1 MB - for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_V5.zip

Last edited by Scawen, Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:19.

S14 - this is not a feature request thread. If I have changed the clutch then please comment on it.

This is a compatible patch - that means, no multiplayer or physics changes. There will be a multiplayer incompatible patch with the same physics and then after that there will be a physics patch. It will happen quicker if you don't waste my time, telling you the test patch forum rules.

Hello Racers! Here is a new fully compatible Test Patch, V3.

The changes are all listed below in this post. Some of the changes (like the unlocking fixes which were in V2) are very important to some people. Many people will like some of the other improvements, even though there are no physics changes or any major multiplayer changes (which we do hope to release in the near future). In particular I think most people will be happy that we are now using DaveWS's sounds as the default sounds! Thank you Dave!

There are also various minor graphical improvements and several new InSim packets which will be helpful for people developing race management systems. Hosts will also be happy with the new option /adminslots which reserves connection slots for administrators.

LFS S2 has now diverged into two versions, a compatible version and a non-compatible version. As we continue to develop the incompatible version, I may copy some compatible changes into the compatible version so they get well tested and you get a few updates - and any important issues get fixed.

This thread is for feedback about the test patch. We need to know if you find any problems. Please do not make feature requests on this thread. Thank you!

Changes in TEST PATCH V3 :

Sound :

Included new default car sounds created by DaveWS

2D Display :

Improved small map car pointers
Improved needles and markers on clocks
Slightly more efficient 2d graphics drawing
Driver names draw distance no longer depends on FOV
Reduced width of lag meter (see more with ctrl+shift)
FIX : Wide screen autocross object selection buttons

Graphics :

Better FPS due to removal of unecessary LOD checks
Removed option "Wider screen increases LOD"
Removed option "All scenery at maximum LOD"

Interface :

ESC now closes live suspension view and sound editor
HOME key now works correctly in single player replays
ESC in game setup screen now exits to entry screen
SHIFT+O in main entry screen now goes to options
Join specific game - colours are removed from name
FIX : Next screen shot number was not saved on exit
FIX : Default sound selected when deleting a colour
FIX : Mouse cursor is now visible on window border

Views :

View options now visible before you go on track
Separate FOV stored for each car's custom view
Separate steer look option for each custom view
Improved options for follow view (chase cam)
View screen rearranged to make more sense

Misc :

Game setup screen stats : join - pit - spectate
New InSim packets (pit - penalty - take over - flags)
Admins can now use in-game : /laps /qual /hours /wind
New option /adminslots=X reserves slots for admins
FIX : MsgOutPack (MSO) now shows long user messages
FIX : Wrong delay "setup changes" after tyre change

Changes in TEST PATCH V2 :

Higher resolution image in mirrors
Selected setup is displayed in F12 menu
Another small reduction in pit-out glitch
Setups can be sorted by name as well as date
CTRL+S saves a screen shot to the shots folder
Same distortion regardless of the volume setting
No need to type edit_eng before using sound editor
New PACK button in sound editor to load a sound pack
Set log file name /log=name.xxx or /log to stop logging
Master port is now selectable in cfg.txt (29339 or 8080)
Any res as wide as or wider than 3:1 considered 3 screen
Various translation updates and improvements
New language : Slovenian / Slovenski

FIX : Unlocking issue with AMD Athlon 64
FIX : Unlocking should now work on Cedega
FIX : Small renaming bug when saving replays
FIX : Invisible warning when wrong way reversing

INSTALLATION :

1) Move or save the patch into your main LFS folder
2) Double click the patch to extract it to that folder
3) When you see "Confirm File Replace" select "Yes to All"
3) Now you can start LFS in the normal way

KNOWN ISSUES :

There is a SPR Out Of Sync (OOS) bug. I will try to fix that this evening.

So please do not use V3 for hotlaps. Multiplayer should be fine.

DOWNLOAD :

TEST PATCH V3 (1.5 MB) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_V3_TEST.exe

DEDICATED HOST V3 (1 MB - for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_V3.zip

Last edited by Scawen, Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:09.

I can't say too much because it's things that have not yet been done, and nothing's definite until it's done. But basically I think can do some multiplayer things in a short time, that will be useful improvements for a patch W. One thing is I would like to allow more racers online (total 24) and more spectators. I have a list of a few small improvements for this quick multiplayer patch. Hotlaps would be unaffected. Then the community will have that improved multiplayer version with the same physics, while we work for some time on physics updates (not in public). Now please don't ask me more about it and don't make any requests. I'm just letting you know about this little plan because I already let slip that there would be some multiplayer incompatible changes. I don't want to discuss that here, this is a test patch thread to report issues with V2. Maybe it was a mistake to say anything at all. It may not happen. It's not very exciting either, so not worth talking about. There will not be any updated tracks or car interiors, until the physically incompatible patch. Thanks!

Quote from Bob Smith :

That does make sense, although I'm not convinced this is the ideal solution. Wouldn't a better way be to prevent excess clipping, rather than forcing it?

It's not possible to prevent hard clipping, when several cars are around and there's an echo, for example, or the sound designer just sets too high a volume. And before the soft clipping was introduced, some testers were already beginning to use HARD clipping as part of the sound, but it's very harsh. Windows / DirectSound only gives us a little range to play with, and it kind of only goes to 1, there's no 1.1 or 1.5. So soft clipping is needed.

It turns out that soft clipping (i.e. stopping the sound wave being cut off abruptly at it reaches its peak) is similar to something that happens in your ear or in the air when there are loud noises around, the waves get distorted. Please don't ask me about that effect as I'm not an expert on the physics of sound, I haven't looked very deeply into it, I'm just accepting what I am told, on the basis that distorted (soft clipped) car sounds can sound better, and that my ears don't do any "hard clipping" in real life, and that I don't really have any choice in the matter anyway. It's also used in music apparently. You just cannot allow hard clipping in a sound wave. Soft clipping allows you to play a louder sound, without reaching the limit and getting the very harsh sound of hard clipping.

Quote from Bob Smith :

With V2, everyone's sound is like full volume (20). IIRC, using 20 distorts even with the original sounds (although I last tested that pre-V, so I could be talking bull here). Why not make it so that everyones sound is like half volume (10)?

It doesn't make any difference, I've now given the choice to the sound pack designers. V2 allows car sound designers to have the choice of how their engines sound. DaveWS's set should sound exactly the same as it did before, for those people who put their volume up to max. He can make it sound the same as it did for people on half volume, if he reduces all the volume sliders in his pack. You are right that I could have set the level wherever, but my assumption was that all sounds would have been designed for full volume settings. And LFS's default setting was very near maximum.

I hope that helps to explain the decisions behind this. The original sounds were designed at full volume, but a wrong design decision by me meant that there was less soft clipping / desirable distortion when any user used lower volumes. That meant the user who wanted to change the volume, also changed the sound itself. I don't think that is the intended function of a volume control. DaveWS now has the choice, and when he gets feedback from any user about his sounds, he doesn't need to know what volume they are listening at.

This is one reason why the sound system wasn't released - it was not finished. Remember I warned that things could change. It's funny now that you are already concerned about me making this tiny change, that affects existing sound packs, and getting me into a long discussion about it! Exactly what I warned about! The good thing is I've not changed anything about the generation of the sounds, and all I have done is given control back to the whoever edits the sounds.

Quote from SamH :

Scawen's said many times that the AI need improving and that they're on his list of priorities, but he also said many times that the change would be incompatible. I'm not sure why people who were waiting for the compatible Patch V would be disappointed to find no AI improvements, but it's certainly no misrepresentation on the part of the Devs.

In fact some of the AI improvements could be done in a compatible patch - for example making them better at staying on the track, understanding that they have tyres that change temperature, etc, etc... Going into the pits deliberately will definitely require an incompatible patch. But there is a lot that can be done in a compatible patch.

And just in case anyone needs to ask why they weren't done in V, which was a compatible patch... there is a limited amount of time, and that's one of a hundred things that could be done. If I did everything that was possible in a compatible patch it would probably take a year or maybe 3 years with no physics changes. At some point the patch has to go out. There are A LOT of things that could be done in a compatible patch, that were not done. Patch V went out as it was because it was a massive improvement over the now buggy and old Version U.

Don't worry, AI will be improved. The unfinished AI are one of tha major reasons why LFS is still called Alpha.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

If that's true then can I assume that every surface carries the same weight? If so, this would account for the fact that the hot hatches seem very top heavy. Sometimes after going over an inside curb I swear that the engine must be mounted on the roof!

The meshes aren't used in the mass calculation any more. However, they are used to create a physics collision box and also to determine a radius. So they can affect physics in small ways.

Any tiny change to the car could put replays out of sync. For example, if a driver's position was moved by one millimeter, because of an updated steering wheel or whatever, the replay would be out of sync.

Not all the car interiors are done and Eric wants to release them at once, not having half a car class updated while another car is not. And one thing leads to another, so if the XRR is updated, the XRT is updated, so then the XFG should be updated as well. I expect all the interiors will be released at once, in an incompatible patch.

Quote from RAYfighter :

And now a picky question from me: I was hoping for a /canreset=no to be working in patch V for a DEDI server already. But it seems that you can still reset your car eventhough this option is set to "no" in my server setup.cfg. Am I doing anything wrong?

No, that is all programmed but not active because it requires an incompatible version. That option will be in the next incompatible version, along with other physics and multiplayer changes. And before anyone asks, it is not possible to give any kind of estimate about when that will be, or a list of features, because that is unknown.

Quote from AndRand :

I like the autoupdate - there will be no problem with patches' incompability in future (and it is good to have an option to download it manually)

On the question some people have asked about providing manual downloads for people who can't use the automatic updater, my guess is this will be possible, for the big steps, for example, Patch V to Patch W. But if we do minor updates in between, e.g. a texture update or some engine sounds, we will not provide manual patches. Anyway, the automatic download patches are accessible by normal http download at the moment. Basically I don't know what we'll do but don't worry about it.

Hello Racers! Here is a new Test Patch U35!

There are a lot of changes since version U - all listed below in this post. Important changes include :

New Script System
Car Sound Improvements
Automatic Update System
Windows Vista Compatibility
S2 racers can now see S1 hosts
S1 users can use the skin downloading system
Many fixes and improvements in all areas

WARNING : your controls will not be correctly assigned due to the new way the controls are stored in a special file in the data\misc folder. There is a default file included for the Red Momo and the Microsoft FF Wheel so they should be reasonably set up if you have one of those. We will be providing default files for many wheels. We will make a special announcement when we need help supporting more wheels.

NOTE about H-shifters : Since U11, you cannot use an H shifter on a single seater car. If you have a shifter, LFS automatically sets to sequential when you select a single seater. There are two separate versions of these three settings (one for sequential and one for shifter) : AutoClutch, GCCut, GCBlip. That's because a lot of people may wish to use auto clutch with their paddle shift and manual clutch with their shifter.

NOTE about controls : There is a new script system you can read about below. When you select a car with a road / sequential or paddle shifter, LFS will run the file data\script\road.lfs (etc). Some people may want to use the /button command in their scripts, to assign unused buttons. For example when you drive a formula car, you have a spare horn button and you might want to use that for pit speed limiter.

Changes in TEST PATCH U35 :

Sound :

Improved car engine and other sounds, added gear whine etc.
One extra car sound is now played (now 5 including your own car)
Sound now plays at low speed, if replay at 0.5 or 0.25 speed
Skid / scrape sounds are now bounded to reasonable level
Now generated at 100 Hz resolution - same as physics
Engine can now be heard from a greater distance
Improved wind volume at low and high speeds

FIX : Corrected volume of interface sounds
FIX : Small clicks audible a few times per lap
FIX : Removed crackling of sounds related to echoes
FIX : Bug in camera position height part of sound calculation
FIX : No music when watching MP Replay with music in replays ON
FIX : Looping music buffer while selecting a track - now silent
FIX : Nasty sound clicks when cars got nearer and further away

Multiplayer :

Improved multiplayer synchronisation checking (OOS)
SHIFT+S when spectating now goes directly to garage
Garage when not in race now shows spectate and join buttons
Clicking join with no car selected goes to select car screen
Can't join race / leave pits for 12 seconds after green light
One extra car in high resolution physics (car in front at start)
Discount immediate pit stops from the "must pit" rule (cheating)

FIX : Rare crash in blue flags calculation
FIX : LFS online hosts would hang if run for 50 days
FIX : Stuck in entry screen if host has run for 25 days
FIX : Rare problem causing your car to vanish on other computers
FIX : Spectate after autocross run caused "Unknown finisher" message
FIX : A player in pits could be forced to spectate at end of race
FIX : Qualifying countdown was too short if less than 4 in race
FIX : Mandatory pit stop is now not allowed to be on final lap
FIX : RCM now has priority over race finished messages

2D Display :

Misc Option : Show time instead of FPS in-game
New path draw for game setup screen and in-game
Realistic speedometer based on drive shaft speed
Hold CTRL+SHIFT to show time instead of frame rate
User messages no longer obscure the frame rate display
Not recording message is now only displayed for 8 seconds
Messages now visible but dimmed in ESCAPE and OPTIONS screens
FOV adjust keys (5/6) now show the FOV in a temporary message
Virtual start lights are now displayed on the right by default
Small map is now never shown on the left if right is selected
Message history (H) is now hidden at race restart or SHIFT+F
Option to show small map on left or right of screen
Removed text "LEFT pit lane" and "ENTERED pit lane"
Central text now visible in SHIFT+F mode (option)
Temporary messages now visible even if fps is off
Real mirrors are now invisible if set to virtual
Added UP and DOWN buttons to options screen
Messages are now hidden in the ESCAPE menu

Interface :

Easier to get to desired FOV using 5 and 6 zoom keys
Text entry box is smaller and blocks driving view less
Button control rate option now visible in wheel/js mode
Improved instant gear shift mode selection function SHIFT+G
New general purpose save and load dialogs with rename / delete
List of games screen allows sorting hosts by clicking column title
Improved replay selection screen, added delete, rename and info
Keys Y/N (yes/no) now work on the replay skins download screen
Option to switch off acceleration view shifts in custom views
Mirror mode for driver and custom views (now in view options)
Added "all" to clocks mode options (off, real, virtual, all)
New track selection screen allows track browsing before load
Graphics options changed around to be intuitive / consistent
New graphics option : Draw sky (replaces screen clear type)
Controls screen now shows the function assigned to a button
Scroll bar added if more than 7 players in list of players
Skip intro option is now very fast (avoids loading track)
Skip intro option renamed to : Load track when starting
FIX : Button opacity option affected the colour sliders
Game setup screen : ENTER key - joins race / sets ready
Game setup screen : now shows local and UTC (GMT) time
Game setup screen : Can now use /spec(tate) X command
Cleaner replay start - avoiding flashing entry screen
Start New Game / Join Specific Game : Added ENTER key
Misc Option : 12 hour or 24 hour format selectable
Car picture can now select the car (not just text)
Some improvements to graphics options and layout
Close window button (X) does a quick clean exit
New /exit command also does a quick clean exit
Added ALT+F1 to F12 as programmable text keys
Key ALT+F4 is programmed to /exit by default
Added rename function for car setups

FIX : LOD values were rounding to one decimal place
FIX : Clutch pedal was not shown in controls setup screen
FIX : Mip bias setting was wrongly affecting in-game text
FIX : Clickable buttons in connection list at start of race
FIX : Changes were lost when selecting in car / custom views
FIX : Could not view user names in replay if MP mode was Demo
FIX : Arrow keys work in wheel mode even if assigned to KB steer
FIX : Messages were unblocked by sending any command to the host
FIX : Black screen bug changing between full screen and windowed
FIX : Move speed slider didn't work in high view if following car
FIX : Channel screen brought up a background while in game

Views :

Improved position of road car internal mirrors
Internal mirror offset limit increased to 400 mm
Separate mirror offset for custom and internal views
Single seater car shadows now visible in custom views
Cameta roll function added to SHIFT+U free camera mode
Custom view mode selection now separate for main and look
Buttons in view options to set custom view to eye or centre
BF1 / FO8 show virtual clocks if wheel draw is switched off
Maximum value reached marker added to virtual pedals
TV camera, CTRL + arrow keys change zoom and roll
Draw driver / wheel option added to custom views
Custom views are now stored in data\views folder
Custom view settings now separate for all cars

FIX : Excessive acceleration view shift in fast cars
FIX : Formula dash live settings now work in custom view
FIX : Mirror option ALL did not show a mirror in wheels view

Controllers :

Axis, button and key assignments stored in .con files
Sequential shift automatically used for single seaters
Separate shift help settings for sequential and shifter
All steering wheels default to separate throttle / brake
Non-wheel game controllers default to combined thr / brk
Controls setup screen now shows the currently pressed buttons
Wheel turn minimum reduced to 90 degrees (for sticks / pads)
CTRL+F1 to F12 text keys are all now assignable to buttons
Car's steering wheel turns now shown in steering settings

Windows Vista Support :

FIX : Sound now works correctly in Windows Vista
FIX : Unlocking is now possible in Windows Vista

Misc :

Added file docs\Commands.txt - listing ALL commands
Updated... docs\Autocross.txt - for new functions

Option : minimum time between gearshifts (debounce)
S1 users can now use the automatic skin download system
Automatic update system gives info, downloads, installs patch
FF Steps now defaults to 256 (this gives higher resolution FF)
Layouts do not set the number of laps unless a start pos exists
S2 users can see and join S1 hosts in List of Games screen
When first run, LFS defaults to desktop screen resolution
Restricted areas and route checkers added to autocross
Welcome / Tracks filename length increased to 31 chars
New car data output files (press letter O in garage)
Gearshift debounced (can't shift twice within 50 ms)

InSim : MCI packets are now available in arenas
InSim : IS_RES qualify packets sent even if not in table

FIX : Outguage reported remote cars fuel load
FIX : Driver's body optimisation was too sensitive
FIX : Selecting drag strip often resulted in 3 lap race
FIX : OutGauge now works on remote cars / MPR / external
FIX : Reverse driving in hotlapping mode now invalidates HLVC
FIX : Starting LFS with /join command needlessly loaded last track
FIX : Corrected positions of translator names on credits screen
FIX : A few wrong vertices on driver necks and marshall helmet
FIX : Mirrors and clocks sometimes corrupted after minimising
FIX : Small map sometimes went off screen or overlapped text
FIX : Unlock was lost after hibernation on some computers
FIX : CTRL+F keys did not work during replays

New file associations system :

SPR / MPR / SET / LYT files can now be opened directly
In Windows, right click and set them to open with LFS

Double clicking a SET or LYT file copies it to its folder
Double clicking a SPR or MPR file copies and runs the replay

New LFS script system :

- Place text file of commands xxx.lfs in script folder
- Then script xxx.lfs can be run by typing /run xxx
- Note : CAR.lfs is run when you select CAR e.g. XFG, BF1
- Note : autoexec.lfs is run when LFS reaches entry screen

New text commands added (see Commands.txt in docs folder) :

/fov [degrees] - field of view
/ff [0-200] - force feedback strength
/axis [axis] [function] - e.g. /axis 2 throttle
/invert [0/1] [function] - e.g. /invert 1 brake
/button [button] [function] - e.g. /button 5 shift_up
/key [key] [function] - e.g. /key Q handbrake
/head_tilt [degrees] - 1g head tilt
/lateral_shift [m] - 1g lateral shift
/forward_shift [m] - 1g forward shift
/vertical_shift [m] - 1g vertical shift
/say [message] - same as typing a chat message
/echo [text] - show text only on local screen
/spec [name] - same as spectate [name]
/ctrlf [num] [text] - change text e.g. /ctrlf 1 hello
/altf [num] [text] - change text e.g. /altf 1 /view=driver
/wheel_turn [degrees] - specify turn angle of controller
/press [key] - simulate key press
/ctrl [key] - ctrl + key
/shift [key] - shift + key
/alt [key] - alt + key
/autoclutch [0-1] - turn autoclutch off / on
/gccut [0-1] - throttle cut on upshift
/gcblip [0-1] - throttle blip on downshift
/axlaps [num] - set autocross number of laps
/view [fol/heli/cam/driver/custom] - select view

IN A SCRIPT : //comment - this line is ignored
IN CHAT BOX : //xxx - short for /run xxx

/hrun X : admin can run script X on host
/exec E C : run program E with command line C

/shifter [auto/sequential/shifter] - shift mode (like SHIFT+G)
/hidetext [no/yes] - hide text (like SHIFT+F)

INSTALLATION :

Warning : If you have edited any scripts, don't overwrite them! Back up your script folder before install!

1) Move or save the patch into your main LFS folder
2) Double click the patch to extract it to that folder
3) When you see "Confirm File Replace" select "Yes to All"
3) Now you can start LFS in the normal way

DOWNLOAD :

TEST PATCH U35 :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_TEST_U_TO_U35.exe

DEDICATED HOST U35 (for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_U35.zip

On the Vista subject, really, there wasn't any choice, There wasn't a thought to the idea of writing on our website "LFS does not support Vista". People contacted technical support - they had tried the demo then bought a license and could not unlock LFS. That makes me feel bad. Should we refund these people, or put large notices all over our website in bold capitals warning that if they have Vista, don't bother with LFS?

That kind of thing is a *strong* motivation to find out what's up - it could only be a simple thing, but one requiring a compatible patch. And after the unlocking was fixed (for Vista 32 only, it turned out, at first) only the sound issue remained. Would I really say at that point, "OK, I don't know what the problem is, but anyway, I'm not even going to investigate, I'll give up now before I start, and we'll just advertise all over our website, not to bother if they have Vista?" I can't think that way. Giving up before I begin isn't the driving force behind LFS. And all the time, tech support mails still coming in, reporting Vista issues!

Anyway, no-one should be sad about the sounds being fixed for Vista, the underlying system has improved and has got me on a roll with the sounds. This very productive time as I push hard towards patch V is just not the time to complain about anything. Do you really want S2 final released with the S2U sounds? No of course not, so why does it matter if I do sounds or physics first? The sounds are actually worse than the physics right now, if you want my own opinion.

DaveWS made a really good point, the features that some people have complained about, are ones that took about 20 minutes here and there. It's funny that they aren't complaining about the important things that have taken the bulk of the time these last few months. They are just getting in some kind of a flap because I spent 10 minutes on one thing, 20 minutes on another and half an hour on another thing, when there are some more important *several weeks long* things to do.

Should a man who has a broken leg not scratch his ear if it is itchy? Should he not waste 5 seconds scratching his ear, just because he should be more worried about his leg? I don't know, ask someone with a broken leg.

[reply written on Test Patch thread before moving]

I'll move the OT posts away in a while, perhaps to the progress thread. But for now I'll just reply.

Simply, the criticisms of LFS development stated a few posts back are just wrong and displaying a lack of understanding, and failure to see the big picture. Or if you wish, you may interpret that as my failure to explain to you what I'm doing every step of the way. But seriously, my job is not to explain to you every step of LFS development and every plan I have for it, while they run through my head. My job is to get LFS done.

It was actually the two Vista compatibility issues (unlocking and sound) and the arrival of the G25 wheel that got me onto this series of test patches. It's very important, with more and more people getting Vista, and us receiving several technical support emails "I can't unlock on Vista" and so on, for LFS to work on Vista. Also we need that improved controller support to be readily available to new users. Also I've had enough of "How do I install a patch, I've downloaded it and LFS doesn't work any more" so I've been working on and nearly finished the auto updater. And that means, Patch V needs to go on the main site. And guess what - it should not go up there completely bug ridden and full of hundreds of small issues that have been waiting a long time to be fixed. But it should be compatible, I need to do some months of incompatible work, which I have outlined elsewhere and won't go into here. And there's no point delaying the compatible fixes, leaving the much poorer version U up there when we are so close to V.

The compatible fixes and improvements are totally necessary. The irritated commentators on this thread have no idea how much reworking and improving goes on inside the program while I'm on a roll. Also they don't understand how much simply MUST be done, outside the core physics, to keep the program on track. It does actually take more time than the core itself. If a great majority of the time was spent on the core alone, we would have a physically accurate, but totally unusable simulator that attracted no more than the absolute hardcore simmer. And we'd be poor and have to give up LFS and go and get a job!

This work NEEDS to be done. It's nothing different from any time in the past. A lot of compatible fixes, tested thoroughly by the community, followed by an apparently quiet period while we work on incompatible things which cannot be tested by the community because every day's test patch is incompatible, which would causing hotlap and online madness. And in that apparently quiet periiod there will be a new post each week "Where are the devs gone" and "They've taken our money and run" and "The devs owe it to us to write a detailed progress report each week" etc, etc... you know how it goes by now.

Anyway, I'm very happy with these improvements, I'm sort of embarassed now by version U and it's flaws and imcompatibilities, the visible things and the internal messes it contains that I have sorted out. I'm itching to get that version V up there but it needs the auto-updater finished (a couple more days work) and the new (minor) sound updates (a few more days work - still awaiting some longer work in the future). Nearly every one of these test patches has had some VITAL fixes, along with a few irritations fixed and some minor or major features. It really is not a bad thing for LFS, these compatible things that have been done, bringing us so much closer to a final S2 that can be released, when the other craved updates are completed.

It's a little sad the lack of trust displayed in those preceding posts. The belief that something has gone wrong inside our heads, that the developers who once knew how to develop, have changed mentally in some way, are hiding away in a hole, scared to develop anything but just scratching at the surface. It's quite a pathetic belief in fact, when the truth is Eric's there working on things that will improve LFS a lot amd I am working 10 hour days getting so much done, as fast as possible to get a stable version up there ready for the approaching silent period of core development.

It's going so well, and as described elsewhere our lives have been sorted out a lot this year helped by the S2 success, after neglecting ourselves for years, due to LFS development. It would be nice if the off topic commentators could just be happy about it and have some faith in the simple understanding that we developers who got it this far, and have devoted so much of our lives to this, probably want to take it to the next stage as well!

Quote from SamH :

Ack! Hit a wall (proverbially). I wonder if it would be possible to introduce the option to have sounds in MPR/SPR, when playing back at less than 1x. I know it doesn't make real-world sense, but it's actually about movie making.

It wasnt really about real world sense, it was a programming issue, due to the way the new sound system works. Anyway, I realised that I can change the speed of the whole sound buffer, still playing 441 samples per physics update (44.1 kHz sound).

So now, when the replay speed is slowed to 0.5 or 0.25, it plays the sound, but at 22050 or 11025 Hz. This is a new thing for LFS, and was requested some time ago. It means the sound can simply be speeded up and will be correct, with no need for any special filters.

Quote from Speed Soro :

C'mon Scawen, you know we lov u, but when will u start solving the aero physics? And when will we have new tracks and some better cockpits?

Better sounds... brakes heating... engine waste...

Sorry, can we wait for any christmas gift?

Are you just trying to wind me up?

Is it a joke? I don't really find it funny.

Hmm. I guess I could ask you the same...

Are YOU going to give us a new sim with physics updates, better than LFS, and will it be a Christmas gift? I hope so, that would be fun. I hope it works well online and doesn't have too many bugs, so we can all enjoy it, as a seasonal hobby over this winter. Yeah I'm quite excited actually. Something new, great!

Quote from -liberto- :

Scawen : did you read my reply about FPS decreasing ? I think i have the solution

EDIT : ehh i think it's since U21 ... because I patch from U20 to U25 in one time So the problem could come from U21, U22, U23, U24 or U25
if i have time and patience i will try every patch (from U21 to U25 )

I am slightly disturbed by your loss of frame rate but so far we have only heard that from three people : you, siLc and robertchapple123. More than 500 people have downloaded the patch.

It's strange because I can't recall any changed to graphics and there are certainly no changes in physics (or the replays would go out of sync). As it is only affecting so few people, I don't have much to go on, and won't really do anything at the moment, with this small amount of info.

But yes, I would be interested to know exactly which patch seemed to result in the massive loss of frame rate. I'd also like to know if the frame rate is low when you have the game paused. And also what happens when you press SHIFT+F to remove the 2d display? These results will help to suggest if it is a 2d text problem or 3d graphics, or something else.

About the sound disappearing when you go to different replay speeds :

That is intentional. The sound is now generated at 100 Hz, in fact it generates a new block of 441 samples, after every physics update. It's not possible to do this at different replay speeds. It would need a varying buffer size and a lot of programming to get around this.

About the sound disappearing when the window loses focus :

I didn't program that, it is just how DirectSound behaves, so I can't do anything about it, apparently. I don't think it's very bad so I'm not worried about it.

About the FFDevice error :

That was always there. It's just that I am displaying a message now, when it happens. The message comes up when your screen is activated and it fails to initialise the force feedback device. Why it happens, I have no idea. It seems you can usually get your Force Feedback to come back by clicking on the desktop then clicking on LFS again (or maybe SHIFT+C).

About the black screens when going from full screen to windowed :

I don't think that is new in U23. It has been around since some earlier test patches. I can't reproduce it when using LFS in a normal way. Does it only happen after you have used ALT+TAB? I can't be held responsible for what happens after ALT+TAB You should use SHIFT+F4 to go into a window, then Windows treats LFS with respect and sends it the appropriate messages. My impression is that ALT+TAB seems to make Windows be quite neglectful about sending the correct messages to the program.